Dedicated to improving responsiveness and performance of Montgomery County Public Schools
Pages
▼
Friday, July 8, 2011
Neelsville Middle School Parents Rally to Save Principal
Neelsville Middle School parents to meet at the school at 4:30 PM on July 8, 2011 to discuss sudden departure of school's principal. Meeting will take place in parking lot if necessary.
Neelsville Middle School faces restructuring based on the recent MSA results.
What happens to the Community Superintendents when schools do not make AYP goals?
Even if you completely discount Neelsville's results on the ALT-MSA (which you should, because it is a bogus, meaningless, waste-of-time effort for students and staff alike), the special education students at Neelsville did very very poorly in Math. http://www.mdreportcard.org/AYPgraph.aspx?DT=000000000000000000000010&AypPV=14:2:15:0115:3:0:A Lyda Astrove
Neelsville made AYP last year - only one of 3 MS in the cluster that did make it last year. It has a strong Principal who is struggling with having a huge Special Ed, FARMS, ESOL population - more than any other middle school in the cluster. And some of these students are being sent to Neelsville from their assigned home-schools. MCPS needs to reduce the number of these students instead of trying to replace an effective Principal. There is transparency in the way she runs the school and nothing gets glossed over. High achieving students can thrive here and she is a strict disciplinarian. MCPS may not like her because she suspends students who make trouble so that the school is safe for others. She is on the chopping block for no fault of hers. MCPS is setting this school to fail.
@10:02 Can you explain what is going on at the school? Why are students sent to Neelsville? What about this principal is transparent? That is, what information does she give parents? How does the Neelsville suspension rate compare to other schools? Thanks!
I disagree with Anonymous 10:02! The solution for Neelsville MS is NOT to send away the special education students who have been placed there by MCPS....the solution is to APPROPRIATELY SUPPORT THEM. Lyda Astrove
I think another issue here is that the school is not getting the support it needs. In the recent Gazette article here (http://www.gazette.net/article/20110706/NEWS/706299542&template=gazette) it states: "Three schools Benjamin Banneker Middle in Burtonsville, Gaithersburg Middle and Daly Elementary in Germantown are designated for corrective action this year, meaning they have not met standards for three years. For those schools, central office staff will form committees dedicated to school improvement." To the best of my knowledge, this was not something that was done for NMS. How are schools supposed to improve if they do not get the support they need? My questions are: 1.Why wasn't there more support at this school if the school system knew it was failing? 2. Why is the principal the only one departing from NMS? 3. What are the consequences for the Community Superintendent and the Director of School Performance for this school? (FYI, the only two schools being restructured this year for failure to meet AYP are overseen by the same Community Superintendent and Directory of School Performance)
According to the above referenced article, this is the first time that Montgomery county has had to restructure schools due to failing to meet AYP. I think MCPS fell short of their obligations to this school and community by making a bad situation turn to worse.
I just was notified that Dollye McClain will be resigning from Neelsville Middle School. Not by her own choice but because of some inaccurate measure of success that MCPS has placed on schools.
Ms. McClain, in my opinion, is doing an excellent job. As Principal of NMS she has motivated and guided the students, parents and teachers of that school. She is working with an overcrowded school environment and reducing budgets. Ms. McClain is known for her compassion, educational knowledge and yes, a little bit of intimidation. The students at NMS come from a very diverse community. The students need to know that they are cared for and that no one will put up with any misbehavior.
Many of NMS students go on to Clarksburg and Watkins Mill to become honor students. AYP is important to measure success but AYP was met last year. We have become a school district obsessed with tests and results. We teach to the test and our students are not getting a good well rounded education.
Ms. McClain is an asset to NMS and we DO NOT want to lose her. I asked my son what he thought and he said she is doing a good job. He said some kids don’t like her- but you know why? Because she is tough on them to do a good job and not get into trouble!!!
Maybe in MCPS would reduce the overcrowding of NMS and maintain the budget, AYP would not be had to achieve. I don’t think it is Ms. McClain or her staff that is failing.
NMS has had the support any school in Corrective Action has, for several years, the article left that out; don't think fate of other admins in the cluster have been determined. The cluster has a new Community Superintendent, as the previous one has changed positions.
I have never written to something like this before but feel that there are so many wrong statements in what is above that I need to. My husband works in MCPS (in another middle school) and I have spent a lot of time in the building picking up our 3 kids, volunteering, and dropping off books and stuff.
The first writer talks about the Alt-MSA. No student at Neelsville took the alt because there is no FLS program or similar type there. However, the only reason Neelsville made AYP last year (2009-2010) is because the sixth grade that year had a huge number of LD students compared to other grades. This allowed the school to make it by sfae harbor (whatever that is) becuase that's measured by the actual number of kids who passed not the percentage.
The fact is Neelsville didn't make it in MANY categories (like 9). More than 1/3 of students in building could not pass the math test. More than that though the school hasn't made AYP in something like 5 of the last 6 years. The county has had sent staff development specialists to the school and the community superintendent and other staff meet with administrators something like every month.
AS for discipline and stuff I have seen kids cuss out staff using the f-bomb and then see them in school the next day. I see only one administrator leave the office when I'm there (an assistant principal who's name I don't know). My youngest child is going into seventh grade and my other two have finished. When I heard the news, I asked them how often they had seen Mrs. McClain in classrooms and all of them (that's a total of seven years of school) said never. One siad she's in the lunch room and stands in one corner of the hall but that's it. The other two knew the exact corner she was talking about.
My husband works in a school whose racial and economic statistics are as bad or worse than Neelsville's and his school has made AYP in 5 of the last 7 years, including this year. 80% of their students pass Algebra by 8th grade. This year Neelsville had to disband one or two algebra classes midyear becuase so many kids were failing.
I have seen Mrs. McClain yell at staff. I was in the school on the first day of MSA testing this year (that's what AYP is based on). At teh end of the day she made an announcement about a fight that had happened at lunch in 8th grade. The other two grades knew nothing about it until her anouncement. The tone of the announcement was angry and threatening including calling the police. No mention of how hard the 6th graders had worked that day on their testing. The only announcements I seem to have heard her say are oneslike these.
I hope whoever is picked as the new principle is much more positive and focused on instruction. Over the last 2-3 years many of the teachers who have helped my kids the most have left the building. It is time for a change and for MCPS to stop making excuses why Neelsville is not doing as well as other middle schools.
I think it is telling that the email list for PTSA parents is only 23 emails for a student body of over 850. I don't think this school gets a lot of support from parents
@12:17 No, that's just an indication of how PTA involvement/relevance has dropped over the years. PTA is a membership organization that requires its members to pay dues and take specific positions established by the National organization. Not everyone wants to pay dues to be involved in their child's school, and not everyone agrees with the National PTA positions. Low PTA activity at MCPS middle schools can be found all over the county. That's not an indication of anything other than the decline in PTA.
So sorry, YES you are correct, I went back and looked, and it was the MOD-MSA scores for special education students that were also listed. But they weren't so hot either. If you recall, at first MCPS claimed that the scores for the kids who would otherwise have gone to the learning centers weren't really valid, because the appropriate test, the MOD-MSA, wasn't available. Now it is available, and guess what....the students aren't doing so hot on that one, either. Maybe if the learning centers still existed for middle school, instead of MCPS's current "one size fits all plan"...kids would have their educational needs met. Nevertheless: the ALT-MSA is a waste of time for students and teachers alike. The teachers at Neelsville are very lucky they haven't had to administer the ALT-MSA. Lyda Astrove
@ 8:39 pm, the fate of one of the admins was a promotion. As I am not opposed to change in a school that undoubtedly needs it, I don't think making one person (the principal) the scapegoat is going to change much. I can't wait to see what happens to the school and I hope it's for the good of the students.
@ Anonymous 11:49 - Thank you! As a staff member of NMS, I was appalled by the misconceptions of Ms.McClain and what goes on in the building on a daily basis. Your children were so perceptive for noticing that Ms. McClain NEVER went into classrooms to observe her teachers and therefore did not know what was going on in her own building. That is completely unheard of for any principal, especially one who is overseeing a school like Neelsville. This past year especially the hallways were in a constant state of chaos and were not safe for students or staff. This was brought to Ms. McClain's attention over and over but she did nothing about it. She never helped to come up with solutions but instead made excuses or blamed the issues on others. She made numerous announcements this year that were poorly timed, interrupted instruction and often had no point and were offensive and negative. Morale at NMS is at an all time low. Many excellent teachers have left over the past few years. I am sorry to come off so bitter but I just couldn't stomach anymore comments about what an excellent principal Ms. McClain was.
Well, what I don't understand is if the teaching staff is feeling so under supported by the administration, why haven't they pulled their union card or better yet, spoken directly to the Community Superintendent or their Director of School Performance, since apparently they are there on regular basis! Do they not see what is happening if they are in the building?? Or do they walk around with blinders on? As to anonymous @July9; 11:49am; wanting us to believe you are only a parent picking up your children, do you spend all day in the school? You hear announcements and see interactions with staff and administration; you seem to know alot! As to the Math issue; was it that students were failing or was it the fact that the teaching staff was not coming to work for whatever reasons, i.e., medical leave,family leave, etc. and the children were not given a substitute qualified to teach the classes? A meeting was held towards the end of the year with the Community Superintendent in regards to these Honors Math classes and the reply given was that this happens all over the county and it is hard to find long-term subs qualified to teach these Math classes! "Are you kidding me?" Another question better to ask is could the problem lie with the feeder elementary schools sending unprepared students, placing children that cannot do the math work in classes just to make their numbers look good at the elementary level. Again another question for the bigger fish (Community Superintendent and Director of School Performance)since they push the elementary to have the above grade level classes. If the kids can't do the work then don't have the class. As data driven as MCPS seems to be,when it's convenient for them,they should be able to determine the ability of the students. But back to the matter at hand, maybe the teaching staff just doesn't like honesty or being held accountable for what they possibly aren't doing, so of course they are going to throw their supervisor(principal) under the bus! How will only eliminating one person from a school with apparently no working plan in place help a school at need?
There is something going on in the math department over there but I can't figure out what. My son came from elementary school with As in math and now has had 2 years of struggling with low math grades. They wanted him to repeat last year's math class. He is a motivated kid who has tried to get help. His teacher said she could not stay after school but recommended he come in early (hard to do when you take a bus)He is taking summer courses to try to help him catch up but if there are in fact 3 classes worth of kids repeating IM this year that seems to be a big problem
Two math teachers left in the middle of the school year last year and since MCPS was on a hiring freeze, they did not hire a replacement. That is why the math is failing at NMS and the Community Superintendent knew about this and had a meeting with parents and nothing was done. Way to help the kids!
There are a lot of facts stated by the parent and staff member above. If you would take time to look at the Feb Newsletter written by McClain you would see she stated that her job might be changed as well as the staff. It is still posted on the school website.
McClain did not support all her staff. She had a select few and if you took anytime to ask your children they could tell you about the negative messages she made to the entire student body.
This school has great teachers and will make great strides without the road blocks she put in the way.
@July 15, 2011 9:34 I talked with my children everyday when they came home from school and they never stated that her messages were negative, just matter of fact. As for the road blocks I can't speak to what was made challenging for the teachers, but isn't that what you have MCEA union reps for, if it was made that difficult? Did the roadblocks make it impossible for the staff to teach the students or was the expectation to challenging for the staff? I just don't understand that if the environment was so hostile for the staff, why nothing was ever said or done. I'm suppose to believe that one person is responsible for an entire school failing!? Come on, the ball got dropped in more places than one!
Even if you completely discount Neelsville's results on the ALT-MSA (which you should, because it is a bogus, meaningless, waste-of-time effort for students and staff alike), the special education students at Neelsville did very very poorly in Math.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mdreportcard.org/AYPgraph.aspx?DT=000000000000000000000010&AypPV=14:2:15:0115:3:0:A
Lyda Astrove
Neelsville made AYP last year - only one of 3 MS in the cluster that did make it last year. It has a strong Principal who is struggling with having a huge Special Ed, FARMS, ESOL population - more than any other middle school in the cluster. And some of these students are being sent to Neelsville from their assigned home-schools. MCPS needs to reduce the number of these students instead of trying to replace an effective Principal. There is transparency in the way she runs the school and nothing gets glossed over. High achieving students can thrive here and she is a strict disciplinarian. MCPS may not like her because she suspends students who make trouble so that the school is safe for others. She is on the chopping block for no fault of hers. MCPS is setting this school to fail.
ReplyDelete@10:02 Can you explain what is going on at the school? Why are students sent to Neelsville? What about this principal is transparent? That is, what information does she give parents? How does the Neelsville suspension rate compare to other schools? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Anonymous 10:02! The solution for Neelsville MS is NOT to send away the special education students who have been placed there by MCPS....the solution is to APPROPRIATELY SUPPORT THEM.
ReplyDeleteLyda Astrove
I think another issue here is that the school is not getting the support it needs. In the recent Gazette article here (http://www.gazette.net/article/20110706/NEWS/706299542&template=gazette) it states:
ReplyDelete"Three schools Benjamin Banneker Middle in Burtonsville, Gaithersburg Middle and Daly Elementary in Germantown are designated for corrective action this year, meaning they have not met standards for three years. For those schools, central office staff will form committees dedicated to school improvement."
To the best of my knowledge, this was not something that was done for NMS. How are schools supposed to improve if they do not get the support they need?
My questions are:
1.Why wasn't there more support at this school if the school system knew it was failing?
2. Why is the principal the only one departing from NMS?
3. What are the consequences for the Community Superintendent and the Director of School Performance for this school? (FYI, the only two schools being restructured this year for failure to meet AYP are overseen by the same Community Superintendent and Directory of School Performance)
According to the above referenced article, this is the first time that Montgomery county has had to restructure schools due to failing to meet AYP. I think MCPS fell short of their obligations to this school and community by making a bad situation turn to worse.
I just was notified that Dollye McClain will be resigning from Neelsville Middle School. Not by her own choice but because of some inaccurate measure of success that MCPS has placed on schools.
ReplyDeleteMs. McClain, in my opinion, is doing an excellent job. As Principal of NMS she has motivated and guided the students, parents and teachers of that school. She is working with an overcrowded school environment and reducing budgets. Ms. McClain is known for her compassion, educational knowledge and yes, a little bit of intimidation. The students at NMS come from a very diverse community. The students need to know that they are cared for and that no one will put up with any misbehavior.
Many of NMS students go on to Clarksburg and Watkins Mill to become honor students. AYP is important to measure success but AYP was met last year. We have become a school district obsessed with tests and results. We teach to the test and our students are not getting a good well rounded education.
Ms. McClain is an asset to NMS and we DO NOT want to lose her. I asked my son what he thought and he said she is doing a good job. He said some kids don’t like her- but you know why? Because she is tough on them to do a good job and not get into trouble!!!
Maybe in MCPS would reduce the overcrowding of NMS and maintain the budget, AYP would not be had to achieve. I don’t think it is Ms. McClain or her staff that is failing.
NMS has had the support any school in Corrective Action has, for several years, the article left that out; don't think fate of other admins in the cluster have been determined. The cluster has a new Community Superintendent, as the previous one has changed positions.
ReplyDeleteThe Community Superintendent got promoted.
ReplyDeleteEnjoy the principal search with Mr. Williams.
ReplyDeleteI have never written to something like this before but feel that there are so many wrong statements in what is above that I need to. My husband works in MCPS (in another middle school) and I have spent a lot of time in the building picking up our 3 kids, volunteering, and dropping off books and stuff.
ReplyDeleteThe first writer talks about the Alt-MSA. No student at Neelsville took the alt because there is no FLS program or similar type there. However, the only reason Neelsville made AYP last year (2009-2010) is because the sixth grade that year had a huge number of LD students compared to other grades. This allowed the school to make it by sfae harbor (whatever that is) becuase that's measured by the actual number of kids who passed not the percentage.
The fact is Neelsville didn't make it in MANY categories (like 9). More than 1/3 of students in building could not pass the math test. More than that though the school hasn't made AYP in something like 5 of the last 6 years. The county has had sent staff development specialists to the school and the community superintendent and other staff meet with administrators something like every month.
AS for discipline and stuff I have seen kids cuss out staff using the f-bomb and then see them in school the next day. I see only one administrator leave the office when I'm there (an assistant principal who's name I don't know). My youngest child is going into seventh grade and my other two have finished. When I heard the news, I asked them how often they had seen Mrs. McClain in classrooms and all of them (that's a total of seven years of school) said never. One siad she's in the lunch room and stands in one corner of the hall but that's it. The other two knew the exact corner she was talking about.
My husband works in a school whose racial and economic statistics are as bad or worse than Neelsville's and his school has made AYP in 5 of the last 7 years, including this year. 80% of their students pass Algebra by 8th grade. This year Neelsville had to disband one or two algebra classes midyear becuase so many kids were failing.
I have seen Mrs. McClain yell at staff. I was in the school on the first day of MSA testing this year (that's what AYP is based on). At teh end of the day she made an announcement about a fight that had happened at lunch in 8th grade. The other two grades knew nothing about it until her anouncement. The tone of the announcement was angry and threatening including calling the police. No mention of how hard the 6th graders had worked that day on their testing. The only announcements I seem to have heard her say are oneslike these.
I hope whoever is picked as the new principle is much more positive and focused on instruction. Over the last 2-3 years many of the teachers who have helped my kids the most have left the building. It is time for a change and for MCPS to stop making excuses why Neelsville is not doing as well as other middle schools.
I think it is telling that the email list for PTSA parents is only 23 emails for a student body of over 850. I don't think this school gets a lot of support from parents
ReplyDelete@12:17
ReplyDeleteNo, that's just an indication of how PTA involvement/relevance has dropped over the years. PTA is a membership organization that requires its members to pay dues and take specific positions established by the National organization. Not everyone wants to pay dues to be involved in their child's school, and not everyone agrees with the National PTA positions.
Low PTA activity at MCPS middle schools can be found all over the county. That's not an indication of anything other than the decline in PTA.
So sorry, YES you are correct, I went back and looked, and it was the MOD-MSA scores for special education students that were also listed. But they weren't so hot either. If you recall, at first MCPS claimed that the scores for the kids who would otherwise have gone to the learning centers weren't really valid, because the appropriate test, the MOD-MSA, wasn't available. Now it is available, and guess what....the students aren't doing so hot on that one, either. Maybe if the learning centers still existed for middle school, instead of MCPS's current "one size fits all plan"...kids would have their educational needs met.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless: the ALT-MSA is a waste of time for students and teachers alike. The teachers at Neelsville are very lucky they haven't had to administer the ALT-MSA.
Lyda Astrove
@ 8:39 pm, the fate of one of the admins was a promotion. As I am not opposed to change in a school that undoubtedly needs it, I don't think making one person (the principal) the scapegoat is going to change much. I can't wait to see what happens to the school and I hope it's for the good of the students.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 11:49 - Thank you! As a staff member of NMS, I was appalled by the misconceptions of Ms.McClain and what goes on in the building on a daily basis. Your children were so perceptive for noticing that Ms. McClain NEVER went into classrooms to observe her teachers and therefore did not know what was going on in her own building. That is completely unheard of for any principal, especially one who is overseeing a school like Neelsville. This past year especially the hallways were in a constant state of chaos and were not safe for students or staff. This was brought to Ms. McClain's attention over and over but she did nothing about it. She never helped to come up with solutions but instead made excuses or blamed the issues on others. She made numerous announcements this year that were poorly timed, interrupted instruction and often had no point and were offensive and negative. Morale at NMS is at an all time low. Many excellent teachers have left over the past few years. I am sorry to come off so bitter but I just couldn't stomach anymore comments about what an excellent principal Ms. McClain was.
ReplyDeleteWell, what I don't understand is if the teaching staff is feeling so under supported by the administration, why haven't they pulled their union card or better yet, spoken directly to the Community Superintendent or their Director of School Performance, since apparently they are there on regular basis! Do they not see what is happening if they are in the building?? Or do they walk around with blinders on? As to anonymous @July9; 11:49am; wanting us to believe you are only a parent picking up your children, do you spend all day in the school? You hear announcements and see interactions with staff and administration; you seem to know alot! As to the Math issue; was it that students were failing or was it the fact that the teaching staff was not coming to work for whatever reasons, i.e., medical leave,family leave, etc. and the children were not given a substitute qualified to teach the classes? A meeting was held towards the end of the year with the Community Superintendent in regards to these Honors Math classes and the reply given was that this happens all over the county and it is hard to find long-term subs qualified to teach these Math classes! "Are you kidding me?" Another question better to ask is could the problem lie with the feeder elementary schools sending unprepared students, placing children that cannot do the math work in classes just to make their numbers look good at the elementary level. Again another question for the bigger fish (Community Superintendent and Director of School Performance)since they push the elementary to have the above grade level classes. If the kids can't do the work then don't have the class. As data driven as MCPS seems to be,when it's convenient for them,they should be able to determine the ability of the students.
ReplyDeleteBut back to the matter at hand, maybe the teaching staff just doesn't like honesty or being held accountable for what they possibly aren't doing, so of course they are going to throw their supervisor(principal) under the bus! How will only eliminating one person from a school with apparently no working plan in place help a school at need?
There is something going on in the math department over there but I can't figure out what. My son came from elementary school with As in math and now has had 2 years of struggling with low math grades. They wanted him to repeat last year's math class. He is a motivated kid who has tried to get help. His teacher said she could not stay after school but recommended he come in early (hard to do when you take a bus)He is taking summer courses to try to help him catch up but if there are in fact 3 classes worth of kids repeating IM this year that seems to be a big problem
ReplyDeleteI was told that the restructuring would require that 51 percent of the staff be replaced
ReplyDeleteTwo math teachers left in the middle of the school year last year and since MCPS was on a hiring freeze, they did not hire a replacement. That is why the math is failing at NMS and the Community Superintendent knew about this and had a meeting with parents and nothing was done. Way to help the kids!
ReplyDeleteWhat hiring freeze? Jerry Weast was hiring like mad.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of facts stated by the parent and staff member above. If you would take time to look at the Feb Newsletter written by McClain you would see she stated that her job might be changed as well as the staff. It is still posted on the school website.
ReplyDeleteMcClain did not support all her staff. She had a select few and if you took anytime to ask your children they could tell you about the negative messages she made to the entire student body.
This school has great teachers and will make great strides without the road blocks she put in the way.
@July 15, 2011 9:34 I talked with my children everyday when they came home from school and they never stated that her messages were negative, just matter of fact. As for the road blocks I can't speak to what was made challenging for the teachers, but isn't that what you have MCEA union reps for, if it was made that difficult? Did the roadblocks make it impossible for the staff to teach the students or was the expectation to challenging for the staff? I just don't understand that if the environment was so hostile for the staff, why nothing was ever said or done. I'm suppose to believe that one person is responsible for an entire school failing!? Come on, the ball got dropped in more places than one!
ReplyDelete